?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Just for the record...  
05:23pm 26/06/2009
 
 
Benjamin
Atheism is a religion, and it is every bit as faith-based as any other.

For myself, I don't know if there is or is not a god or gods or whatever. I'm nowhere near smart enough to know for sure that there isn't one or even a few, and frankly I am more than a bit skeptical of anyone who claims that they are possessed of such certainty, doubly so if they assert that scientific reasoning or logic backs them up. (Hullooooo! You can't prove a negative!) I've also never had any god speak to me or otherwise reveal their existence in any sort of unequivocal fashion, and I'm perhaps a bit more skeptical of anyone who says they have. Full disclosure: I do have something like a religion, but it's mine because I made it and it works for me, and I have no interest in spreading it around; it's no-one's business but mine. But back to my rant...

It's fairly common for atheists to believe that anyone with religious beliefs is stupid, and not at all uncommon for them to say as much out loud or in print. The irony of such a position always seems to escape them, though. They're more than willing to disparage beliefs as being wrong, and those who have beliefs as being foolish, but they offer no positive evidence to justify their lack of belief, which pretty clearly makes that lack a matter of faith, and no different in substance from that which they are condemning. I'm not griping about all atheists, of course, but the ones that I most often hear or read seem every bit as self-righteous and intolerant as any bible thumper I've heard laughed about on the Daily Show. (Oh yeah, I laugh at 'em too, but the fact that they're dumbasses has nothing to do with whatever flavor of idiocy they happened to be spouting when the tape was rolling.) Moreover, they seem to exhibit the very aspects of religion that they so gleefully decry such as intolerance, closed-mindedness, and hostility toward those who don't share their beliefs. Pot, kettle, what?

I think that intolerant douches are intolerant douches independent of what their individual beliefs may be. The beliefs themselves seem almost to be nothing more than justification for expressing hostility; like if it wasn't religion, they'd be dickish about politics or find something else to justify the dickishness.

Whatever you believe or do not believe is fine and well, but condemning people for their beliefs is hurtful and wrong, and has no more place in this day and age than condemning people for their orientation, gender, or race. So why is this particular brand of intolerance so widely tolerated? </rant>
location: Land of Caps
mood: irritatedirritated
music: Rammstein - Herzeleid
tags: rants
 
    Post - Read 10 - - Link
 

(no subject)
 boggyb
 
09:42pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Thomas
You might be amused by a series of adverts on buses an atheist group over here ran. Personally I think the message is still important regardless of the religion.

That actually made the local news, due to a (Christian) vicar refusing to drive one of those buses.
 
    Reply - Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 kires
 
09:48pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Benjamin
Oh hell yeah! Those are great! Pretty good advice, to boot.

>> the message is still important regardless of the religion

Could you rephrase that for me? I'm not quite catching your meaning, I'm afraid.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 boggyb
 
10:22pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Thomas
I mean the "now stop worrying and enjoy your life" part - I think it still applies even if you are religious.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 kires
 
11:38pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Benjamin
Oh _that_ message! I thought you were making reference to the message of a religion or religion in general. But that makes a lot more sense.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 the_xtina
 
09:46pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
So why is this particular brand of intolerance so widely tolerated?

Because for one of the few times in a particular type of history*, we won't be burned at the stake for being a heathen, perhaps.

* Where the majority religion of the nation is a flavour of Christianity.
 
    Reply - Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 kires
 
10:08pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Benjamin: thought
Yeah, I can definitely see how that could be a factor. But that line of reasoning (if I've not misunderstood) seems to indicate that it's ok to be intolerant of religious people now because of foul acts perpetrated by long dead third parties. ... ?
picword: thought
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 the_xtina
 
10:23pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
More like it's safer now to speak up about the issues we have with religion nowadays.  Some people may be dicks about it, but there'll have to be statistics before I can accept "most atheists are assholes about religion".

Basically, on the faith-based side, they have things like teaching creationism in schools, preventing their children from receiving medical care, mutilation of their children's bodies, incredible amounts of misogyny, blocking contraception and abortion, excommunicating rape victims, evangelism, the Quiverfull movement, and peculiar wardrobe choices.

This is not some wacko.  This is in their religious text, and is communicated to them by their religious leaders.

We have... bitching about them.

Yeeeah.  Even if the majority of atheists were assholes about religion, to other people (and not just irritated but quiet, as I am), I'm not entirely sure I give a damn.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 kires
 
12:49am 27/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Benjamin
I perhaps should have been more explicit about not lumping all people of similar belief (atheists, in this case) together, as it's not really the beliefs that were my target. I was not going for "most atheists". I was referring strictly to the atheists I've heard or read, which, given my habits, are likely to be the ones that put the most effort into being heard. So of course I'm going to hear the version of atheism most common to preachy atheists, and this will definitely color things, ... and I just made on one of the most basic mistakes EVAR, that of taking the attitude of the most vocal as the generally accepted attitude of the group ... and I just realized that on the train, doh!

I would assume that the same thing is true for the Goddies. The ones that you hear about are going to be the ones that make for stories worth telling. The result of that is that both sides (and by both sides, I mean those who see a distinction worth caring about) are going to have plenty of examples of wrong from the other side to make their solid case.

My point, I think, was that the intolerance exhibited by those assholes on either side is tragically hilarious, given that neither flavor of asshole (oh god, did I just type that?) seems to see how very fundamentally similar their actions are to the ones they're belittling or attacking. I was most definitely not going for a comparison of their relative merits.

Thanks. I enjoyed reasoning that out.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 the_xtina
 
10:09pm 26/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Also, I am whatever kind of person says "I don't know for sure, but I don't make things up out of fear of living in an uncaring universe".  It's likely I'm a dick.  This is why I never, ever, ever talk about religion to people - I don't want them forming their view of atheists based on my deep irritation with the world.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 
(no subject)
 kires
 
01:11am 27/06/2009 (UTC)
 
 
Benjamin
>>Also, I am ... It's likely I'm a dick.

I don't think that makes you a dick. Now, if you took it to the next level and went for some sweeping declarative generality like, "Everyone who believes in a higher being that gives half a damn about us is an escapist pussy who can't face up to reality", that would be a perhaps a mite dickish. True dickhood, however, would not be attained until you were renting out network air time on Sunday afternoons or scheduling speaking tours to Methodist old folks' homes.

The world is a pretty ass-awful scary place, I wholly agree. And just for the record, I think that atheists aren't really any different from any other reasonably numerous group, in that they are far too diverse to be grouped by any but the most superficial of commonalities.
 
    Reply - Parent - span>Thread - span>Link
 


 
 
 
Navigation  
  Previous Entry
Next Entry
 
July 2012  
 
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
293031
 


  Powered by
LiveJournal.com